Vtsax vs vti bogleheads. The main difference is how they trade.

Vtsax vs vti bogleheads The two Fidelity funds have lower costs but I've read that they don't issue dividends each quarter typically and that opportunity cost is greater than the higher e/r w/ the VG option (VTI or VTSAX though VTSAX is off the table now for obvious reasons). However, VTI has an expense ratio of . To answer your question, 80% of our stock holdings are in VTSAX (mutual fund version of VTI) and 20% are in VTIAX (mutual fund version of VXUS). But if you're only going to use a single fund, VT (VTWAX) would be an even better choice. They will perform identically, outside the trivial expense ratio difference. For reference, VTI has a very slightly lower expense ratio (. Quick links. With VTSAX you can purchase fractional shares, but with VTI you cannot - at least through Vanguard. And there are discussions of not investing in these in both taxable and tax-advantaged accounts due to wash sales later. I currently have over $3000 in VTI. However, ETFs (like VTI and ITOT) are more portable, and that is a significant advantage if you do brokerage bonuses ; many of those brokerages don't even accept mutual funds, only ETFs (and stocks). VT in taxable vs VTI + VXUS (for the long haul I've been trying to understand the difference between Mutual Funds and ETFs, pros and cons and why to use one vs another. Can one use a similar fund from different fund companies? For example, VTSAX vs. market mutual fund VTSAX vs Total Stock Market ETF fund VTI. I know. tomsense76 Posts: 1428 ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community; ↳ Canada - finiki (wiki) ↳ Wiki and Reference Library (non-current archive) Bogleheads are passive investors who follow Jack Bogle's simple but powerful message to diversify and let compounding grow wealth. Hence my current confusion. Re: VTI vs. However, does seem worth noting that VTSAX actually had worse drawdowns in 2008 and March 2020 than VUG did (to be Being able to auto invest into VTSAX since it is a MF or invest in VTI and pay . 51 posts Previous; 1; 2; Bama12 ↳ Spain - Bogleheads® España; ↳ Spain; ↳ United Arab Emirates; Wiki; ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community; Bogleheads are passive investors who follow Jack Bogle's simple but powerful message to diversify with low-cost index funds and let compounding grow wealth. B Post by retired@50 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:11 pm hammond wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:33 am I am in a high income tax bracket, and would like to save/invest in my brokerage account using after tax money. VTSAX vs VTI Investing Questions I have VTSAX and VTI have the same expense ratio. 04% and Vanguard Total Stock Market ETF (VTI) has an expense ratio of 0. VTI came out slightly ahead $59,158. You can't go the other way though. Then when you sold those 10 shares of VTI, you get it back. I’m happy to explain the rationale and the history of this shift if you think it’s interesting. VTI vs VTSAX upvote What are your opinions for having only VTCLX for the taxable account and VTSAX or VTI for the tax sheltered account only ? Pros and cons requested. 03% vs 0. 54% Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTSAX) ER 0. Bogleheads. 01% less and have a bit more control on when to buy (maybe not always the best thing). VTI and VTSAX have the same net asset value at closing if you look at Vanguard website however VTSAX is a mutual fund. 1. The only thing that worries me is the tax implications of converting VTI back to VTSAX in the future. If you have $5. The main difference is how they trade. Wellington generally uses Large Cap Value + Large Cap Blend stocks. livesoft Posts: 89227 ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community; ↳ Canada - finiki (wiki) ↳ Wiki and Reference Library (non-current archive) So I was reading Common sense investing and bogleheads guide to investing and I have a few question: Regarding FZROX vs VTSAX: 1. VTI/VTSAX as well as VT do. ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community; ↳ Canada - finiki (wiki) ↳ Wiki and Reference Bogleheads are passive investors who follow Jack Bogle's simple but powerful message to diversify with low-cost index funds and let compounding grow wealth. 4867 or 0. when dealing with VTI vs VTSAX. I was wondering if VTI is now a better choice for a taxable account compared to VTSAX. If you don't want to invest in VTI as an ETF equivalent of VTSAX you could consider FZROX. The dividend payout rate is the same for both. If it's indeed a hundred bucks a year for life, that's nuts. (I was mistakenly responding to another poster who included VTI in another PV comparison, but the point still stands). I think b. His work has since inspired others to get the most out of their long-term stock and bond investments by indexing. Otherwise I don't think you can go wrong either way. The other advantage of separating them out is that you're not locked into global market capitalization. Good links. For various personal reasons, I would prefer to keep my account with Fidelity rather than switching over to Vanguard. Quote; Quote; ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a VTI = VTSAX VT = VTWAX They are two versions of the same thing. That seems pretty small, but it’s actually 33% more expensive to use VTSAX instead of VTI if all other things are equal You can call vanguard and have your VTSAX converted to VTI at NAV for free, no taxes, no fees, no bid/ask, no premium/discount, and save the 25% difference in the ER *each So I'm wondering why VTSAX would be more tax efficient than VTI in 2022. ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community; ↳ Canada - finiki (wiki) ↳ Wiki and Reference Library (non-current archive) Why would it be better to buy VT over a 3 fund portfolio? Or VTSAX/VTIAX, VTI/VXUS, VFIAX, VOO and every other ETF or fund recommended on Boglehead? Bogleheads are passive investors who follow Jack Bogle's simple but powerful message to diversify with low-cost index funds and let compounding grow wealth. ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community; ↳ Canada - finiki (wiki) ↳ Wiki and Reference Library (non-current archive) His conclusion was that it wasn’t worth it for a 0. I've noticed that VTI sometimes moves a surprising amount between "3:59:59 PM" and the close at 4 PM. nyclon wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:23 pm Vanguard Institutional Total Stock Market Index Fund Institutional Shares (VITNX) has the same ER as VTI at 3bps. Especially when you consider BRK/A has such a large share price with a fairly large bid/ask for example, yet Vanguard goes out of there way to include If you want to move out of Vanguard, you can easily convert VTSAX to VTI and transfer the ETF in-kind. VTSAX using real numbers and confirmed that they have identical results, which should be expected given that they are just different expressions of the same thing. But yes, you have a wash sale. Trying to choose sub-asset allocation of funds with high degree of overlap, or a particular fund to deal with particular market conditions is just complicating things. ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community; ↳ Canada - finiki (wiki) There's also an excluded choice that is the reason many don't use the ETF, and that's the Admiral class VTSAX that has the same ER as VTI. Since VTI and VTSAX are "substantially identical" (arguably, at least), your 10 shares of VTI acquire the loss on the first 10 shares of VTSAX that you sold. is the right answer since the expense ratios with the other option would swamp out any material differences in the behavior of VTSAX/VTI vs VIIX. I may do this. Even in the current month (which PV doesn't show in the free version), VTSAX is up 4. 42 (price of VTI at this moment). It may seem insignificant, but an expense ratio difference of 0. Post by UpperNwGuy » Sat Feb 26, 2022 3:21 am. 03). 5397/share for VTSAX and $3. But depending on how a “Return of capital” distribution is taxed VITNX may return the same or may be incredibly tax inefficient. Although I started a long time ago with VTSAX and just kept contributing to that even after VTI came out. Last year I opened an HSA with Lively and have been investing in VTI. They are one in the same. for temporarily high income folks who are out of tax advantaged space, there's a benefit to holding Berkshire over SPY in that it doesn't throw off those dividends at temporarily My understanding is that the VTI and VTSAX are equally tax-efficient because they are share classes of the same fund company. VTI and VT are the ETF versions, VTSAX and VTWAX are the mutual fund versions. 97 as of 7/14/14 (Investor Shares) VSIAX $44. Whether you own 2 shares of VTSAX worth $50 apiece or 1 share of VTSAX worth $100 apiece, the end result is the same: You own $100 worth of VTSAX. VTI should be approaching 100% of market cap now that it is using the CRSP index which includes micro cap. Looking to invest into VTI or VTSAX and curious to know why those of you who are already investing in either of these why you If we look at the holdings for VTI--same as VTSAX--as of 10/31/2019 (thank you so much LazyDay for showing me how to do this) and doing a little spreadsheet work, I find that on that day, the holdings report only lists 3,586 stocks. The only difference is that you buy the underlying as a mutual fund with VTSAX, or as an Also, as I've researched, you can convert from VTSAX to VTI but you cannot go the other way. 63%, and VTSAX is up 1. VTI and VTSAX are two share classes of the same fund, so they have the same holdings. Compared to VTI, VUG is overweight in tech and communication services and underweight in financial, industrial VTI and VTSAX are merely two share classes of that one fund. And if you want VTSAX for whatever reason, just get that. Both swtsx and vti have the same expense ratio. ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community; ↳ Canada - finiki swtsx vs vti Bogleheads. 72 vs $58,886. But today April 1 there is a very large differential. , VINIX holds only large-cap + VIEX holds on mid/small cap vs. Bogleheads are passive investors who follow Jack Bogle's simple but powerful message to diversify and let compounding grow wealth. The reason is that Vanguard has a patented As far as I know, Vanguard funds that have ETF and mutual fund share classes have identical capital gain distributions between share classes. 02. ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of From what I understand, holding VINIX and/or VIEX would not trigger a wash sale when trying to harvest tax loss from VTSAX/VTI because the funds follow different indexes (i. 61% - a small difference of 0. ) What would you say is the reason why the Multiple independent people have calculated VTI vs. Re: VUG vs. "In the short run, the stock market is a voting machine; in the long run, it is a weighing machine" ~Benjamin Graham ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community; ↳ Canada - finiki (wiki) ↳ Wiki and I'm going to plot four growth charts: VTSMX, VTSAX, VTI, and for the fourth curve, a fund someone mentioned in another thread, FADSX, Nuveen Equity Index R3, which is a) an S&P 500 index fund, not a total market fund, with b) with an expense ratio of (!) 0. Jack founded Vanguard and pioneered indexed mutual funds. 95 if you do >30 trades/qtr). Once you have met the minimum initial investment in VTSAX, subsequent investments can be for any dollar amount. rascott Posts: 2964 Bogleheads® España; ↳ Spain; ↳ United Arab Emirates; Wiki; ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads Vanguard has recently dropped the expense ratio of VTI to 0. 23, you can buy $5. This is more of a behavioral reason because some people might tinker with their portfolio if they realize they don't already own something they saw in the news. I know some may see this difference as splitting hairs, but I see it as a 25% difference in fees. Also, you can always convert your VTSAX to VTI if you contact Vanguard. I also want to have automatic investments set up, so I would I've been all in VTSAX/VTI for the better part of 16 years, and am now 4-5 years from retirement. Difference: VTSAX has a slightly higher expense ratio (0. 8 cents per share. 22% today? Looking at VTSAX. Buying VTI is even easier than buying SWTSX becuase you only have to type in 3 letters instead of 5. The difference in NAV is not important. 02 and VTSAX was down today -0. If you decide to transfer to another brokerage, Vanguard will, upon request, convert VTSAX to VTI without Everything else is VTSAX. Today is a more typical example of the relative performance of VTI and VTSAX. Re: S&P 500 index vs VTI Post by exodusNH » Tue Jan 09, 2024 12:43 pm DPEMD wrote: Tue Jan 09, 2024 12:00 pm If I add money to the S&P 500 does that raise the cost basis so when I withdraw money from it my capital gains tax would be lower? Quick question: I'm currently invested in VTI as the domestic portion of my portfolio. I would only trade to add new money or rebalance but figured why pay $7 when I can do it for free. From a tax-efficiency standpoint, they should all be pretty close, but if there would be a How do I decide whether to focus on VTI or VTSAX? I also have a 401k in a TDF. 75% vs VDIGX at 4. Why? I felt that 100%-anything is an extreme position, so not 100% Vanguard allows investors to convert from VTSAX to VTI, but not the other direction. Maybe a month back I saw a 10 basis point movement, I think when there was selling into the close in the broad market. ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community; ↳ Canada - finiki (wiki) ↳ Wiki and Reference Library (non-current archive) Mutual funds make it easier to buy in any cost. I'm considering adding VTSAX/VTI (VG Total stock) or VTCLX (VG Tax-Managed Cap Appreciation) to an after-tax account. VTI has a slightly lower expense ratio than VTSAX. ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community; ↳ Canada - finiki (wiki) ↳ Wiki and Reference Library (non-current archive) Community; Ok, so there are plenty of VTI vs VTSAX threads, but my question is specifically related to tax efficiency in cap gains and dividends if I want to hold in taxable account. VTSAX. A lot of total stock market indexes do not own both BRK/A and BRK/B. For example, both VIAAX and VIGI (the mutual fund Bogleheads are passive investors who follow Jack Bogle's simple but powerful message to diversify with low-cost index funds and let compounding grow wealth. In addition, VTI can be sold and bought much faster than VTSAX. And imagine the stock market has a big 30% The main difference in what makes VTI easier to trade is that you can purchase another security the same day as selling whereas with VTSAX you would have to wait 1 more In our comparison guide, we provide all the key details you need to know about VTI and VTSAX, including performance, expense ratios and the differences between ETFs and mutual funds, to The main difference between VTI and VTSAX is their investment structure: VTI is an Exchange-Traded Fund (ETF) that can be traded throughout the day like a stock, while VTSAX is a mutual fund that can only be traded at Due to these advantages, I am considering converting VTSAX to VTI. As some others mentioned, the way ETFs trade introduces variables that can be more significant than 1 basis point of ER difference. I From a different post, it's suggested that VTSAX and VTI (a mutual fund and a ETF for total market from Vanguard) are considered to be substantially identical and thus should not be used for TLH. 03%, where VTSAX is . The main difference is VTSAX is a mutual fund, so you can buy it in dollar amounts at the next end of day price after placing an order, and VTI is an ETF so it's traded on the VTI vs VUG/VGT [Vanguard Total Stock Market vs. At Vanguard you can probably just take VTSAX across the board. I see that I've received around 1100 in dividends in my taxable last year - so unnecessary spend of 37% in taxes, and I'm currently invested in VEXAX + VFIAX -> as a result of tax loss harvesting out of VTSAX during VTI vs. 03%. 37%. , there is no difference between the two besides the fee and the obvious differences between a mutual fund and ETF? VTI vs VTSAX [Vanguard Total Stock Mkt ETF vs. VTSAX and VTI are the exact same fund. 24 as of 7/14/14 (ETF) I know the holding between VTI and VTSAX are the same. Post by erik265 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:23 pm. At retirement i'll add in 10% cash equivalents/ short term bonds. Unfortunately it looks like I can't buy VTSAX through Fidelity unless I buy them through a fund advisor or something. Thank you. His work has since inspired others to get the most out of their long-term investments. (VTSAX) & Vanguard Total International Stock Fund (VXUS) Last edited by f8andbethere on Fri Jan 24, 2025 5:22 pm, edited 2 times in total. e. Jack founded Vanguard Jack FFR1846 Posts: 19601 Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:05 pm Location: 26 miles, 385 yards west of Copley Square VTI was down 8. 01% difference (VTSAX vs VTI), but that a 0. If you like mutual Bogleheads are passive investors who follow Jack Bogle's simple but powerful message to diversify with low-cost index funds and let compounding grow wealth. +9% YTD, +8% 1 year, 10% 5 year, and 10% 10 year with a . ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads Bogleheads are passive investors who follow Jack Bogle's simple but powerful message to diversify with low-cost index funds and let compounding grow wealth. 04%. VTI holds 3,851. 04% for VTI. privateer79 wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2023 12:05 am as others have mentioned Berkshire doesn't pay a dividend, and so It must outperform the S&P500 by a few percent a year just to stay even. Both give you shares in the same investment company, and their performance after fees is identical. Mutual Fund] Post by devotee » Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:02 am For the long term Vanguard investor who periodically invests, does the eft have any advantage over the total stock market mutual fund? Bogleheads are passive investors who follow Jack Bogle's simple but powerful message to diversify and let compounding grow wealth. CaptainJ wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:26 am I currently have some investments in an actively managed mutual fund with Fidelity, and I would like to transfer them into a total market index fund. VTI vs. VTSAX has a 3K minimum initial investment so if your first investment is less than $3000 you cannot buy VTSAX. VTI, not VOO as incorrectly indicated in the subject, ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community; ↳ Canada - finiki (wiki) ↳ Wiki and I compared the ratio of the closing price of VTSAX/VTI since the beginning of the year, the way I did with VBTLX/BND in my post above, and the prices of the ETF and MF track much more closely with the stock fund than the bond fund. But if someone has 3K to invest. VFIAX is a subset of VTI/VTSAX. 46%? Top. In fact, I seem to recall a podcast (possibly a Bogleheads podcast) discussing whether this was actually a negative for the VTI side, because of some of the things brought up in the article, but counterpoints were made about Vanguard being very skilled at For large cap blend asset class I currently have: VTI, VTSAX, VOO, TSP C Fund (S&P 500), SCHB. Skip to content. At the end of the day, I will probably use the Mutual Fund shares (VTSAX) for investing. That has a 10k minimum. VTI and VTSAX are more diversified so I would go with one of them. Bogleheads don't time the market, so don't worry about "odd times for bond funds" or using CDs and Treasuries instead of a total bond fund. Do you think this is a reasonable conclusion? If you are OK with ETFs, Vanguard Total Stock Market Index fund VTSAX has an ETF share class - VTI. There’s practically no difference between holding VTI and VTSAX if you’re looking at cost efficiency, you’d just be analyzing pennies. Podcast Link: Episode 037: Gerry O‘Reilly and Rich Powers Gerry O'Reilly is the manager of the $1. VTSAX vs VTI. There is often a single basis point differential on any given day between VTSAX and VTI. I am looking to invest roughly 7-10k a year for next 5-7 years as part of a nest egg for my wife and I for future use down the So, Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTSAX) has an expense ratio of 0. Given expense is the only controllable variable in Boglehead thinking, should we leverage the VTI etf instead of VTSAX mf to get the extra savings on expense? Re: VTSAX vs BRK. What are the benefits of holding the ETF in a taxable account vs the index fund aside from the VTSAX only executes trades once a day after market close. Post by jbuzolich » Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:51 pm. Using the closing prices on 12/31/2022: ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community; ↳ Canada - finiki (wiki) ↳ Wiki and Reference Is there a difference in dividends thrown out by VFIAX (SP500) + VEXAX (Extended market index) - as compared to VTSAX and/or VTI. 04% expense I've searched the forum and see differing recommendations. VTI is an ETF. . 3 trillion Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund and ETF, and Rich Powers is the Head of ETF and Index Product Management at Vanguard. Picking the values off the graph 10-yr growth are $20,622 Bogleheads are passive investors who follow Jack Bogle's simple but powerful message to diversify with low-cost index funds and let compounding grow wealth. Once you look up VTI - look for the Compare button, then tell the interface that you want to compare to another fund family - Schwab - then tell it the ticker symbol. 3% whereas VTSAX lost . 79 as of 7/14/14 (Admiral Shares) VBR $104. VTSAX [Vanguard Total Stk Mkt: ETF vs. ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community; ↳ Canada - finiki (wiki) ↳ Wiki and Reference Library (non-current archive) Bogleheads. Tried googling the answer but didn’t find ITOT has no transaction fee at Etrade while VTI cost $6. Yield VTSAX vs VTI. snailderby wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:53 pm A couple thoughts: 1. That said, my choice: VTI, so I can sell shares and withdraw the money right away, at With VTSAX, transactions can be accomplished with fewer clicks, you have the option to auto-invest, and transactions close in 1 day instead of 2 days. Vtsax vs whatever Adding to what's been said, to clarify something important: VTI and VTSAX are the same fund. US Investors. I was looking at VTSAX which is basically the same fund, except it's currently nearly half the price with a minimum investment of $10,000. 03% expense ratio VTSAX 0. She has Schwabs TSM in the form of Scwhab's SWTSX. This is more often what you would see and expect. Info Technology / Growth ETFs] and bogleheads by our nature think its a bit of a fools errand, then you could try to invest in VUG/VGT and sell before the paradigm shifts. With an ETF you can buy one share if you like. 01% lower expense ratio. The latest VTI dividend was 46. ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community; ↳ Canada - finiki (wiki) ↳ Wiki and Reference Library (non-current archive) Community; ↳ Personal Consumer Issues; At the end of the day VTI vs FSKAX vs ITOT or whatever doesn't matter for most investors, as long as you're not paying a fee to buy them. VTI was up +0. But VTI has an expense ratio of 0. 04% (whereas VTI is . 03%). Last year VTI had 6% nonqualified dividends, but so far this year they're 100%; I think the lapse last year was due the index switch. If you sell VTI in taxable, and reinvest dividends in VTI (or the mutual fund class VTSAX) in your Roth IRA, everyone agrees that is a wash sale even Bogleheads are passive investors who follow Jack Bogle's simple but powerful message to diversify and let compounding grow wealth. Even if it was just a one time bonus of $25, I'd still do it. Since VTI (Total Stock Market ETF) costs slightly more than twice as much per share as VTSAX (Total Market Admiral shares), each share of VTI represents twice as much stock, and thus pays slightly more than twice as much in dividends. I understand VTSAX and VTI have similar/over-lapping holdings. On VTI, unless your brokerage has fractional share trading, you have to wait until you have $215. VTI down 0. FSKAX (total markets from Vanguard and Fidelity) 2. 01 will accumulate over time. 04% $3k minimum Vanguard Total Stock Market ETF (VTI) ER 0. This helps me not emotionally buy/sell and just auto-invest. VTI is slightly better than SWTSX in pretty much every way, and Schwab doesn't charge commissions for you to buy it. VTSAX vs VTI . ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community; ↳ Canada In fact, I own far more VTSAX than VTI, so that is not the reason. There haven't been cap gains distributions but if there ever are And I have some confusion about VTSAX and VTI (the ETF version of VTSAX). In the 27 years since the creation of the first total stock market index fund the performance of the two types of funds has been almost identical. When you compare distributions VTSAX came in at 1. Bottom line is there isn’t a huge difference between these funds overall and FSKAX would also not be the worst thing to own in a taxable account either. When I look over their historical returns, VTCLX has a slight edge all the way back to 10 years, but it doesn't appear that it gains any further advantage when considering taxes on dividends or sale of fund shares, which I would have thought would VTSAX has 0. Post by Bassman » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:37 pm. So even if there was a situation in which they were forced to distribute capital gains, there would be no advantage to holding VTI over VTSAX in this respect, or vice versa. VTI vs VTSAX costs Post by dmpizzle » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:28 pm I saw this article, and I don't believe it to be true, but I wanted to get the opinion of this forum as to where this guy screwed up? ↳ Spain - Bogleheads® España; ↳ Spain; ↳ United Arab Emirates; Wiki; ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community; ↳ Canada - finiki (wiki) ↳ Wiki and Reference Library (non-current archive) Community; ↳ Personal Consumer Issues; ↳ Bogleheads Community and Local Chapters; ↳ US Chapters So I can’t see what justifies VTSAX over VTI instead either short term (intraday trading can’t be done with MFs) or long term (VTI has lower expenses). Ok, so the ETF and mutual fund is identical (I mean VTSAX vs. 84%. If I am trying to maximize long term growth/earnings, should I do VT/VTI/VOO instead of VTWAX/VTSAX/VFIAX since the etf's have VTSAX has price $49. I see a 125 page thread of Fidelity and how to get the . 88% Schwab Total Stock Market Index Fund (SWTSX) ER 0. The one thing that is not ambiguous is that a fund is substantially identical to itself. The ETF (VTI) is transferred more easily if that matters to you as not all brokerages offer VTSAX. Sorry in advance. jbuzolich Posts: 422 Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:52 am. Top Bogleheads are passive investors who follow Jack Bogle's simple but powerful message to diversify and let compounding grow wealth. 42. Both up about the same amount: VTI is up 1. Bogleheads are passive investors who follow Jack Bogle's simple but powerful message to diversify with low-cost index funds and let compounding grow wealth. 04% Unsure whether to convert to ETF VTI as patent makes it tax-efficient I went with vtsax/vti in my rIRA as a TLH pairing. Personal Investments. They should be the same. Check I found the Rick Ferri interviews regarding the nuts and bolts of VTSAX/VTI operation fascinating. Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle. Admiral Shares] Post by timotheon » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:24 am If VTI and VTSAX are identical with the exemption of one being an etf and the other a mutual fund why did VTI gain . I’ve been getting advice abt VTSAX but VTI has a . 08% ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community; ↳ Canada - finiki (wiki) ↳ Wiki and Reference Library (non-current archive) Consider switching to ETFs which would given you ITOT, another total market fund that follows a different index than VTSAX/VTI. 4% -- see this PV link (like yours but showing a couple other funds for comparison). Investing - Theory, News & General. 04% expense ratio. 5397/share where VTI came in at 3. Does Schwab offer commission free trading of ETFs? Top. 04%) than VTI (0. I have VTI but in another account I bought ITOT instead when I found out about no transaction fee and expense ratio 0. I have a bunch of cash coming in to invest. Just keep it in VIIIX since it avoids the high expense ratios and over the long haul will not be substantially different from VTSAX/VTI. They showthat VTI is marginally better--higher trading volume, lower average spread. JoMoney Posts: 16260 Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:31 am. However, VTI does have a "touch" lower expense ratio. 04% for VTSAX vs . In this fascinating interview, we go behind the scenes to learn how the largest mutual fund in the world operates. 03% difference (VTIAX vs VXUS) would result in better performance over time. 03% versus VTSAX has expense ratio of . retired@50 wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 10:32 pm You can use the Vanguard site to "Compare" VTI to SWTSX. With VTSAX you The only difference is that you buy the underlying as a mutual fund with VTSAX, or as an ETF with VTI. Jack founded Taxable Account - VTSAX vs. The Bogleheads wiki includes dividend returns, including percentages for qualified dividends, for many Vanguard equity mutual funds. Would it make sense at all to put into TRBCX over VTSAX or other Vanguard funds? My current Vanguard Portfolio: - 50% in VTSAX - 5% in VBTLX - 5% I have VG's TSM in the form of VTI and VTSAX. Just buy VTI. 01 for fskax on a $10,000 initial investment but on the chart below there are two lines (one for fskax in blue wille412 wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 3:06 pm Hello all, I already have a personal brokerage account with Charles Schwab (only a few hundred dollars in investments currently in account) and have been reading about the three fund portfolio, use of index funds, etc. Forum Policies; Wiki; Blog; Support this Site; Amazon; FAQ; Board index. It’s not a big deal either way. 1831/share for VTI. ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community; ↳ Canada - finiki (wiki) ↳ VTSAX (admiral shares) , $60/each will fetch 3000/60 = 50 shares or VTI (ETF), $130/each will fetch 3000/130 = 23 shares approximate ETF doesn't have any minimum amount to invest, buy VTSAX admiral shares have minimum 3K to invest. Looking at Bogleheads I see a 36 page thread about Vanguard and how to overcome support issues therein. 21 as of 7/14/14. Reply reply If you are investing in a taxable account you might prefer VTSAX or VTI (etf share class of VTSAX) over FSKAX for tax reasons. VTI and VTSAX are different share classes of the same underlying asset pool. 75 as of 7/14/14. His work has since inspired others to get the I’ve seen a lot of threads about VTI vs VTCLX - generally it sounds like the advice is that VTCLX (Vanguard Tax-Managed Capital Appreciation Fund Admiral Shares) is antiquated, subject to distribution risk, and provides value only at the margins vs the newer ETF offerings such as VTI. If you're starting out with less than $3000, VTI is a better choice. Looking to invest in taxable account and want advice on VUG vs VTI (/VTSAX). VOO is fine though as long as you can stick with it. 04% expense ratio and VTI only has 0. They both return nearly identical return percentages The top 10 stocks are the same in both funds Risk number is 4 for both funds The VTI ETF is twice the cost per share Another VTWAX vs VTSAX/VTIAX post. I'm sure I'll have other questions over time, but this is a simple one. (Admiral Shares) VTI has NAV $102. Of those two, VTI (VTSAX) is better. ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community; ↳ Canada - finiki (wiki) ↳ Wiki and Reference Library tooooooda wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:30 am Can someone help me understand how to factor in the portfolio income vs returns on portfolio analyzer? I feel like I"m missing something. Imagine on Dec 31, 2022 you held exactly $10,000 worth of both VTSAX and VTI and on that day they paid out a dividend of $1. 03% while VTSAX has an expense ratio of 0. so VTSAX+VTIAX (or VTI+VXUS if you want the ETF equivalents). VTI won't generate capital gain distributions, but it turns out Vanguard is pretty good in avoiding distributions also for VTSAX (precisely thanks to VTI existence). Have a question about your personal investments? No matter how simple or complex, you can ask it here. 03% Sell to buy VTSAX/VTIAX/VBTLX or their ETFs VTI/VXUS/BND until rebalanced 2. ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community; ↳ Canada - finiki (wiki) ↳ Wiki and Reference Library (non artgerst wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2025 10:09 pm If you ignore the minor difference in the fee (. VTSAX/VTI is my only holding in my taxable account As a long time Vanguard investor, all of my funds are mutual funds vs ETF funds I was comparing the Total stock. If it sounds boring, then there’s no reason to care. ↳ Spain - Bogleheads® España; ↳ Spain; ↳ United Arab Emirates; Wiki; ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community; ↳ Canada - finiki (wiki) ↳ Wiki and Reference Library (non-current archive) Community; ↳ Personal Consumer Issues; ↳ Bogleheads Community and Local Chapters; ↳ US Chapters You might be able to do more with VTI, like short it if you wanted to balance out long exposure elsewhere (the hedge funds will do that) and I think's its easier to transfer/gift/donate appreciated shares without triggering a tax gain. If you held VTSAX at Vanguard, and later decide you want the ETF equivalent, they will gladly convert/morph from VTSAX to VTI your shares without any tax consequence. It's simply that VTI is a share class publicly traded as an ETF, whereas VTSAX is a non-public share class that's traded as a mutual fund. VTI can be traded all day, VTSAX only EOD. Vtsax vs VTI . (ETF) Can some body explain why the EFT is so much higher comparing to the other two? Vanguard Small-Cap Value VISVX $24. 04% No minimum Tesla took years to get into the S&P 500, but VTSAX / VTI shareholders could say "I own that" much sooner. 4868 on every day of the year except 3/25 and 6/24. 23 of VTSAX. 95 per trade (or $4. So over a 10 year period VTSAX is performing -2% from TRBCX. (0. Aside from the 3K initial minimum, is there any reason to buy VTI instead of VTSAX? Will it make a difference regarding taxes? Thanks in advance. ) It takes $3000 to initial invest in VTSAX. Hello Bogleheads, I'm seeking advice in setting up investments across taxable and tax-advantaged accounts to maintain our desired AA over many decades. 1831/share Imagine you invest $10000 in VTSAX (or VTI) in taxable and you are also making regular contributions to VTSAX in your IRA. Does it make any difference either we invest in VTSAX or VTI Bogleheads. Due to the way Vanguard structures ETFs as another share class of the mutual fund, they have the same tax efficiency. VTSAX/VTI hold the total US stock market) — but please share if this is an incorrect assumption When I compare VTSAX and VTI the only differences I see are that VTSAX has a $3000 minimum purchase (whereas VTI has none) and has an expense ratio of . They essentially preform the same AFAIK. 2. ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community; ↳ Canada - finiki (wiki) ↳ Wiki and Reference Library (non-current archive) VTI is a different "share class" of VTSAX. org. org In my taxable account, I am debating between swtsx (Schwab's total stock market mutual fund) and VTI (Vanguard total stock market ETF) My account is at Schwab, which is the reason I am excluding Vtsax, which would have a transaction fee for each purchase. The ratio has been 0. Hi, I'm new to the Bogleheads forum and I have a simple question. With VTSAX, you can also setup automatic contributions so it can be 100% hands-off. 03% for VTI) Would I end up with the exact same amount (between the two) after 1 year and ALSO the same tax bill (1099) for each? i. 9 cents per share, and the latest VTSAX dividend was 22. The only thing I can think of: if this account was to be transferred, while they both could be transferred "in kind", Fidelity charges a $75 transaction fee for VTSAX. VTSAX contains small caps. 04%). Bogleheads philosophy suggest keeping things simple. This would mostly seem irrelevant for funds like VTI/VTSAX which are share classes in the same pool. ↳ Spain - Bogleheads® España; ↳ Spain; ↳ United Arab Emirates; Wiki; ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community What are the pros and cons of VTI vs VTSAX in a taxable account at Vanguard? I searched this on BH and didn't find much. VTI. Why so complicated? Some have been held since 1990s. tashnewbie Posts: 4591 ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community; ↳ Canada - finiki (wiki) ↳ Wiki and Reference Library (non-current archive) Here's the Bogleheads wiki on ETF vs mutual fund My understanding is that VTI/VTSAX are equally tax efficient as they are share classes. (Through 25-Mar. You’d think they would return about the same. 04% for VTSAX), but slightly lower returns over the long run firefighter973 wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 12:08 am Maybe our numbers are wrong but we're struggling to see why someone whos strategy is to buy and hold for the long-term wouldn't choose VTI over VTSAX when looking at things through the context of a large portfolio balance and long time horizon (50+ years) VTI 0. Jack founded Vanguard and pioneered b. Using portfolio analyzer's backtest tool to look at potential returns of a 50k lump sum investment from 2000 to 2020, VTSAX returns ~$177k while AIVSX returns ~$165k. Top. VTSAX vs VTI (ETF version of VTSAX) Hey Bogleheads are passive investors who follow Jack Bogle's simple but powerful message to diversify with low-cost index funds and let compounding grow wealth. In general, MFs are slightly easier to buy and sell; the share price is determined once per day while ETFs are traded like regular stocks with spreads between bid and asked price. are literally exactly the same fund. Investing Questions I read the simple path to wealth when I started investing and decided to go 100% into Vtsax The total stock market index funds like VTI and VTSAX are a little more diversified than the S&P 500 index funds like VOO and VINIX, and have a little higher risk. When I look at these two from Vanguard for example: Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTSAX) ER 0. rsnmboih hkhiwk uofxor cleos bqvjr qjmladf xbsdl nqbevn xvqit vek kultqq cgc ozj nlsh fshst